---

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors, especially in names. Click any timestamp to jump to that moment in the audio.

0:01Who are the characters behind science? This is Science Behind the Glass, illuminated in the human side. In this podcast, we unveil the human side of laboratories and science. Scientists share personal experiences and we discuss their meanings from different perspectives and fields of research. Disclaimer, this is an English version of the original interview, which may be summarized or reinterpreted. Welcome to another exciting episode of Science Behind the Glass, Illuminating the Human Side. On this occasion, we dive into the depths of the ocean to explore the fascinating world of bioprospection, alongside our distinguished expert in the field, Dr. Monica Pujana, recently appointed Director of Faculty of Biological and Environmental Sciences at the Jorgeta de Olozano University. From her roots as a marine biologist to her leadership in innovative research projects, we will delve into her passion for uncovering the potential of marine organisms in the cosmetic industry and her commitment to environmental conservation. Monica, thank you very much for accepting the invitation. It’s a pleasure to have you here. Could you explain in simple words what bioprospecting is? Thank you for having me here. Bioprospecting is essentially everything related to the assessment and use of biodiversity.

1:17Behind having a multitude of species and being one of the most biodiverse countries. What is the purpose of biodiversity? We have to ask this. Biodiversity serves as the basis of our products and services used by numerous communities. and individuals. Think about plants and animals, how they could serve people in the short and medium term. From the dyes we use for the food that we consume, cosmetics and pharmaceutical products, much of those are derived from nature.

1:49This is especially significant in a mega diverse country like Colombia. Traditionally, biodiversity is associated with animals and landscapes, but we are also part of that biodiversity, and this can be harnessed. We must move away from the notion that biodiversity cannot be touched or explored. There are organisms we can use, so we must do it responsibly. Yes. Could you tell us a little about the moment when you decided to specialize in the field of marine bioprospecting?

2:17That’s a good question. I always had an interest in chemistry, but my aunts discouraged me, saying it wasn’t suitable for me. My mother was an avid reader, and her passion for medical plants, along with the marine work, became my inspiration. I started working with mollusks, making significant contributions in the field of taxonomy. However… I reached a point where I felt limited and I wanted to incorporate chemistry into my work.

2:43So I pursued a doctorate in oceanography, but I focused mostly on chemical ecology. This field is closely related to bioprospective, exploring compounds found in marine organisms. After a while, the country began to get interested in bioprospective. people started recognizing the potential of what we could achieve. However, this term was still unfamiliar to environmental lawyers. Some assumed that their perspective meant patenting everything, making billions, and curing all the world’s ills. But the reality is that during the initial research assessment, we don’t always know what will emerge. There’s also the economic recognition given by the communities.

3:25How do we strike that balance? Articles from other countries claim that bioprospecting is still from indigenous communities. However, laws prevent the exploitation of natural resources without the community’s consent. At our university, we offer a course on bioprospecting. It challenges students to think differently. We want them to realize that biodiversity is a resource that can be harnessed. How exciting! The word bioprospecting may sound complex, but in reality many communities have been harnessing the resources and biodiversity of various organisms for countless years. Additionally, you mentioned something crucial. Discovering a new product, especially those with pharmaceutical potential, doesn’t happen overnight. It involves years of research and significant financial investment.

4:14Could you tell us what has been the most exciting or surprising discovery in your scientific career? Well, I won’t claim that I have a novel worthy discovery. However, let me share an example. When we work with an anti -inflammatory compounds from soft corals, our initial expectation was to find an abundant species that had industrial applications. Back in the late 80s, a cosmetic line was developed from these soft corals due to their anti -inflammatory properties. We conducted our research in San Andres and Providence Island.

4:47Surprisingly, we found that there were very few of these corals. Moreover, the chemical composition was similar to existing compounds in the marker, and the quantities were low. However… This investigation paved the way for numerous undergraduate and postgraduate projects. The chemistry of these particular species revealed that they were distinct. It made us rethink the complexity of organisms and the need to re -evaluate these species or other species. Other topics such as cyanobacteria also fascinate me. There are so many new species yet to be documented. The dynamics within coral reefs are incredibly interesting. I believe this is a constant experience. It was extraordinary because we initially thought we could cultivate corals and extract other compounds from them, but no, none of that happened. It wasn’t due to poor project planning. We followed rigorous procedures. Nothing turned out to be patentable, and we didn’t solve all the world’s problems.

5:44Instead, we evaluated our results. People often fear the world’s chemistry and the activities associated with it. Many assume that that discovery must lead to a marketable or industrial product, something that generates revenue. However, the mere discovery of these compounds, even in smaller quantities, is significant, even if it isn’t scalable for large -scale industrial use. This mindset persists because people tend to highlight their success. I always tell my students that negative results are also results. When writing a thesis, include everything that didn’t work.

6:18This way, future researchers won’t repeat the same mistakes. Unfortunately, the scientific community often neglects negative results, treating them as failures. In reality, they contribute to valuable learning experiences. So in summary, what we have obtained from these projects not only led to different discoveries in these coral species, but also new knowledge. Yeah, that’s nice. In your opinion, what are the main obstacles that marine bioprospecting faces in Colombia and the world? In Colombia, knowledge is scarce due to the limited number of experts, and my prospecting is expensive. While we don’t need to go to the sea every week, the expenses associated with these trips can be add up. This is somewhat solvable, but much of the challenge lies in the obtaining permits and filling reports. When collecting samples in protected areas, we do have our rich information that covers multiple species, which is beneficial. However, bureaucracy remains a significant hurdle. In the past, I was even asked to provide coordinates for where I had collected bacteria. There’s an apprehension because some perceive this is a commercialization. Now, if we look at the other side. There’s a lack of crucial dialogue between universities and businesses in Colombia. The pace differs significantly.

7:38Companies operate swiftly while universities move more slowly, which doesn’t align with business needs. Additionally, we have a lack of a strong industry focus on research and development. Permits and requests are evaluated also by lawyers, and their language and scope are different. Here, we grapple with numerous regulations and bureaucracy. This delays a lot of the projects and is quite frustrating. This has improved compared to 20 years ago, but still is not perfect. Other challenges include development issues and costs. When we compare ourselves to other regions, we have abundant biodiversity. But our technology, especially in the chemical field, lags behind. We are limited by equipment, whereas other places are not as constrained as we are. And what are measures that are being implemented to ensure that this exploitation of marine natural resources is sustainable.

8:32People think that when you collect a sample, you will take the entire resource. The challenge is how we are going to produce it. We found an interesting molecule, so we are going to cultivate the algae. We are going to harvest. With bioprospecting, the goal is for nature to tell us, look at the molecule that I have invented. Now, produce it synthetically. It’s no longer about extracting the resource. Just like the exploitation of quinine during the botanical expeditions in the 1819 century. That was terrible. Nowadays, in the laboratory, we can achieve all that by understanding the molecule, but it requires collaboration, work with people, and everyone needs to be interested.

9:11From my perspective, speaking about bioprospective, we have been quite timid in Colombia, despite attempts to focus on priority areas. Basic science is fascinating, but what are we going to do with that biodiversity before it disappears? Before we face more biodiversity losses due to climate change? The idea is to integrate… into the process. When working with fishermen, we should learn how they use the resource. Listen to them.

9:37That’s what we are talking about now. The dialogue of knowledge, local ecological knowledge. It’s about leveraging the community knowledge to advance the work we are doing and to share these discoveries with people. Another important aspect is that bioprospective should address a market need, not just what I find interesting to research. Sometimes this can be challenging for researchers. Let’s take our current project, for example, which focuses on cosmetics, particularly everything related to sun protection. This addresses the real market need, and we are collaborating with many individuals, including pharmaceutical chemists, to solve this specific problem. Regarding synthesis, well, it is viable, but not always straightforward.

10:21Synthesizing a molecule in the laboratory can be quite challenging. However, we can also improve existing molecules. Natural products inspire many pharmaceuticals. but they undergo modifications to enhance their bioavailability. Take aspirin, for instance. The acetylation of salicylic acid. This modification was applied to the compound originally isolated from willow bark, which indigenous people in North America used as an anti -inflammatory.

10:48It is essential to understand that just because a product has a chemical component doesn’t automatically make it harmful. It depends on how the synthesis is carried out. Even soaps go through a chemical process. We use them for bathing. People often get stuck thinking about petrochemicals, assuming that natural products are always safe. However, it is crucial to consider that some plants contain cyanide, which can be lethal. also another issue is the continuity of the projects which is crucial let’s take an example of the salt corals species i mentioned a professor in the united states monitored the colonies for 10 years after 12 years he realizes that the seemingly harmless collection which appeared like pruning, and coral regeneration could lead to successful reproduction, because all the coral resources were directly towards growth. Then, without the continuity of these studies, we could not have been able to understand what is happening with these colors.

11:47Yes, and also, as you mentioned, it’s beyond just basic science. It’s about going beyond a scientific article. How do we make people understand that part? Indeed. It is more important to solve our local problems than publish in a journal like Science of Nature. When you submit an article and then they say, no, we are not interested. Well, it doesn’t matter. Let’s publish it where it can have an impact. However, the perverse system of rankings doesn’t account for the realities of our country. Moreover, it becomes a cult of ego. As we are talking about the human side of science, you have already told us a bit about this part, but we would like to ask you how the science of bioprospecting and biotechnology affects the common people. Often, people don’t really know how this type of research is carried out.

12:36A rejection arises. How have you talked before, for example, about genetically modified organisms and so -called transgenics? What can you tell us about that part? It is lack of knowledge and ignorance. People in general are not very keen on evaluating and seeking the resources that allow them to solve those concerns. Now, with this issue of influencers, I tell my students that there is nothing more perverse than an influencer.

13:02They are now the ones who give medical advice and recommended diets. People believe it. They say transgenics are terrible. but they are in everything. The soil consumed by vegans is transgenic. Everything that is being cultivated, but for most of the things, because transgenic have higher yields and resistant to PET. In the bioprospecting class, we talk about various topics. The students learn to read labels, for example. One has to be a responsible consumer. But traditionally, Colombians are now responsible consumers because often the factor is either fashion or cost. But scientifically, knowledge is within reach of the general public. However, most people don’t realize that they are consuming genetically modified organisms every day, using internet and benefiting from all kinds of technology and scientific discoveries, all of which stem from rigorous scientific work.

13:56The idea is for people to understand in simple terms that these academic scientists and the individuals working behind the scenes in science are ordinary people facing similar challenges. It’s about making science accessible to the public. That’s right. Just moving on to this part about the people involved in science, we want to ask you in your experience, what role do students and human talent in general play in research projects, biotechnology and bioprospecting, and how do they benefit from the participation in these projects? When they have been linked to projects and asking for recommendation, I gladly give it. Or when they tell me, Monica, I got accepted into a doctorate program. I got a master’s degree in such a place. For me, it is the greatest thing when they are willing to work, but especially in… thesis when it’s undergraduate work or postgraduate thesis is a discovery a constant learning they benefit by learning skills besides the contribution they are making at science level is very important that’s right finally we wanted to know how it has been for you to dedicate your working life to science and if it has been difficult to manage those demands of the scientific world in your personal life as a woman and a mother often we believe that we never do anything right and we are very hard on ourselves. Should I dedicate myself to do this or that? But this is life.

15:24Personally, I never felt less or experienced that chauvinism because I believe that in science, particularly in biology, it’s not as prevalent as in other areas. Yes, there have been challenging situations and instances of harassment, but we manage and move forward. Perhaps it’s also partially because… due to my personality and temperament. As a female marine biologist from Jorge Tayo, San Luis University, we always have been quite strong. Like our warriors, I could say. I don’t think a perfect environment in life it is. I would love to have more time to write articles, but time is scarce. Even now with my current role, I have less time. For example, during maternity leave, I have to travel for a project and my older son didn’t recognize me after a month.

16:10I thought that he might be traumatized, but no. He doesn’t even remember. Marine biology has been my passion, my life. I can’t imagine doing anything else. It has brought me immense satisfaction. The opportunity to travel and meet wonderful people. People assume that we spend, for example, our time as a marine biologist in bikinis on the beach. But that’s not the case. We spend just one week a year. And the rest of the time, we just glue to computers working. While always I have loved for perfumes and even considering starting a perfume company, I’m not frustrated because I didn’t achieve it. I have made contributions to science and in other fields. Thanks, Monica.

16:53Those were the questions we had for today. Thanks for sharing all those knowledge experiences and for this pleasant conversation. Thank you for the invitation and the space. It’s interesting how Dr. Monica pointed out that one of her most intriguing discoveries was precisely finding that a compound wasn’t usable as expected in a species of soft corn. These situations are learning opportunities and show how bioprospecting isn’t just about investigating a plant species or an extract from an animal and discovering a new compound. This can take more than 15 years.

17:31Discoveries in science are unnecessary products that can be exploited or industrialized. Simply discovering differences between organisms and their chemistry helps us understanding biodiversity and the changes that organisms undergo. Now, it’s important that when starting bioprospecting, one keeps in mind the need they are trying to fulfill or the question they are trying to answer. As Monica also pointed out, the products obtained from these scientific findings can initially be used solely as a foundational knowledge and later developed in applied science. What do you think, Dani? It’s true. Many discoveries initially have uncertainty utility, but later another researcher finds a way to apply what someone else discovered previously. Furthermore, I think there’s a wealth of knowledge that is sometimes overlooked because it’s considered folk wisdom. or the practices of indigenous communities, among other cases.

18:29I believe many in science need to set aside arrogance and seize the opportunities already available to truly improve people’s lives, not just the lives of those who can afford to buy your product with biomolecules, but also the lives of communities that already have the knowledge and resources at hand in their day -to -day lives. It’s true, we can simplify organisms. Just because they are located close by doesn’t mean that they are the same. And here it is worth mentioning that not only can organisms within the same community be very different, but each individual can also present different profile of compounds. For example, during my thesis working with funnel web spiders, I found that the spiders of the same species and from the same location have different venom profiles. That is to say, they belong to the same species, but they each have their own fingerprint, like us. Wow, does that mean that there were different compounds in the venom of each individual?

19:28Yes, juveniles show differences compared to adults, but they belong to the same species. And they have like a venom fingerprint, which differentiates them from other individuals. That’s very interesting because it highlights the care researchers must take in bioprospecting when proposing a scaling process for industrial production. It’s also further evidence of why investment in long -term projects and monitoring is necessary because organisms, their physiology and metabolites are dynamic and change on different temporal or population scales. Another interesting point that Dr. Mani can mention is that natural molecules are necessarily better than synthetic ones, which is a commonly held belief. For example, there are synthetic products that are derived from natural molecule models or modified ones that aren’t harmful.

20:21They have the same effects and properties. And on the other hand, there are natural clones that can be toxic. yeah this is something quite amusing that we see all the time in advertising for example of cosmetic products or dietary supplements a lot of inaccurate information or even misinformation is circulating sometimes it even seems deliberate To make bio -perspective progress in developing countries like Colombia, we need to facilitate communication between the government and scientific institutions. You don’t actually have to be an expert in a scientific topic to endorse or approve a project. With the tools available today, like artificial intelligence, there are facilities to understand a project. They don’t ask not even the geographic coordinates, so it doesn’t make sense, these kind of questions, or they don’t have a context. Yes, that’s right. in many cases the people in charge of science resources have been and seem to continue to be incompetent to carry out such responsibility they are supposed to have advisers and consultants entire ministries for that But that’s a topic for another episode.

21:27To wrap up, we want to thank our guests once again and our audience for tuning in to this episode of our podcast Science Behind the Glass, Illuminating the Human Side. This episode was inspired by the article Bioprospecting in Colombia. We’ll leave the reference to this material in the episode description. If you enjoyed this episode, give it a like and subscribe to our channel. This podcast is self -funded and self -edited by its host. Find us on our YouTube channel, Spotify, on our official website. Follow us on our social media at X, Facebook and Instagram.

22:01Original music by our colleague and friend Bernardo Aguirre.