---

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors, especially in names. Click any timestamp to jump to that moment in the audio.

0:01Who are the characters behind science? This is Science Behind the Glass, illuminating the human side. In this podcast, we unveil the human side of laboratories and science. Scientists share personal experiences and will discuss their meanings from different perspectives and fields of research.

0:30Hello, my name is Linda Hernandez. I’m a biologist and I hold a PhD in physics and natural sciences from James Cook University, Australia. Hi, my name is Daniel Esguerra. I am a doctoral student in marine science and limnology at the National Autonomous University of Mexico. Welcome to the first episode of our new podcast, Science Behind the Glass, Illuminating the Human Side. In this program, we aim to bring the human side of scientists closer to our audience. Through several episodes, we will be interviewing scientists from around the world. who will share their life stories and how scientific practice has defined them as individuals. We will dismiss the scientific stereotypes. This program is unique because it is broadcasted in two languages, Spanish and English. Your hosts are located on different continents, Australia and Mexico. This allows us to have a broad perspective on contrasting cultures and scientific multiculturalism. In Science Behind the Glass, we delve into the thoughts and personal positions of our guest scientists, debating controversial topics within the academic and scientific systems. You can tune in every two weeks to hear stories of ordinary people dedicating their efforts to scientific pursuits.

1:52However, they also face conflicts and challenges just like anyone else. We will explore how offender stories hold deeper meanings when viewed from the perspective of academia and scientific endeavors. Since the idea is to close the gap between languages, we are going to translate the interviews from Spanish to English and from English to Spanish. To kick off this chapter, we have very special interviews. For today, we will introduce you to researchers. Gonzalo Fajardo, Master in Biological Sciences from the National University of Colombia, who specializes in studying the sexual evolution of butterflies and moths. And Osiris Gaona, PhD in Sciences from the National Autonomous University of Mexico, who is an expert in bath ecology.

2:40Our interviewees will share some of their anecdotes. and we will discuss gender perspectives and the complexities of maintaining a healthy balance between family life and career in academia in different scenarios. With our father -in -law, let’s listen to the interview. Gonzalo, welcome and thank you for being here. Tell us in simple words, what do you work on? en este intento de podcast sobre Behind the Science. Gracias por invitarme, ¿listo? Bien, yo pienso que de lo que me estás preguntando, tal vez mi trabajo está mucho más enfocado a la docencia. Yo digo que a lo largo de los años lo que me he convertido es en un acelerador de mentes que quieren hacer cosas. that maybe I am not able to do in my what to do, but my profession as a teacher has allowed me to see how students, from the questions and from their own observations and proposals, develop as scientists. In that context, it is that perhaps from my interests, which have to do with evolutionary questions, of which I do not have much production,

4:15of course, But yes, we discuss and advance on some issues that have to do with sexual selection. With sexual selection, mainly in sects as a model of study and some other idea that has to do with the faunism of biodiversity in the Andean areas, in the Colombian mountains that are como dice algún colega, un crisol de especiación, y en las que encontramos una enorme diversidad y todavía mucho por hacer en un país como este, ¿no? Good afternoon. Hello, Daniel. Hello, everyone. Thank you for the invitation. I believe I’m the first guest on this Science Behind the Glass podcast attempt. Thank you for having me. My work is mainly focused on teaching. Over the years, I’ve become a catalyst for minds that aspire to achieve things that perhaps I don’t manage in my own endeavors. But my role as an educator has allowed me to witness how students resolve their questions, observations, and proposals to develop into scientists.

5:19In this context, we engage in discussions and make progress on certain topics related to sexual selection and evolution, especially in insects as a study model. Although… I don’t have much scientific output in this area, of course. We also explore ideas related to the fantastic biodiversity in the Andean regions and Colombian mountains, which, as some colleagues said, are a crucial source of speciation. In these areas, we encounter tremendous diversity and there is still much to explore in a country like this. Do you remember the moment or motivation that led you to choose a career in science? If I understand correctly, this is an international podcast. In my case, in a country like ours, a Latin country where the advance of natural science is slow and depends a lot on the possibilities of resources and, why not, on the interaction with good teachers.

6:15In my case, the interest in science and natural sciences comes from my home. I was lucky to have a university mother and to grow up in an environment, let’s say, free. free to think and free to ask and maybe from there the intention was born to study natural sciences, to study biology and to advance in biology already at a professional level, at a student level, at a training level.

6:45Of course, we all have a teacher behind us who influenced us and I had several. I remember just recently reviewing some articles that I found documents from a teacher who influenced me a lot. Carlos Osorio and another teacher, Rodrigo Torres and another teacher, no more Armando Gil. So we always have people who influenced us, who enriched us, who disinterestedly lent us a book, lent us literature and that is what allowed us to start organizing questions and interests.

7:20There is always someone who determines a path, I say. Absolutely. I understand this is an international podcast. In my case, in a Latin American country where progress in natural sciences is slow and heavily depends on available resources, and why not interaction with good teachers? In my situation, my interest in science and natural sciences started at home. I was fortunate to have a mother who was a university professor, and I grew up in an environment, let’s say, free to think and ask questions. Perhaps that’s where my intention to study natural sciences, to study biology, and to advance in the field of biology was born.

7:58On a professional level, as a student, in terms of education, of course, behind each of us there is a teacher who influenced us. I had several. I recently came across some articles and found documents from a professor who had a significant impact on me, Carlos Osorio, and other teachers like Rodrigo Torres and Thomas Armando Gil. There are always people who influenced us, enriched our knowledge, selflessly gave us a book, lent us literature, and that is what allowed us to start organizing questions and interests. There is always someone who sets a path, I believe.

8:38And now, moving on to the most specific topic. Gonzalo, how did you become interested in studying the sexual evolution of insects? And specifically… or particularly butterflies and moths. In a country like ours, the work of inventories dominates, what we call here faunistic inventories, inventories in our case of insects, and more specifically the inventories, the faunistic records of the epidermis, if I may say so. That is to say, the recognition of diversity and all this kind of work that is very traditional here, recognizing how they are distributed, how many there are, and even naming new species, which is very…

9:16relatively common in insects in Colombia. But asking questions about sexual selection in a context like ours is very strange. I was also lucky enough to attend talks at the University of the Valley when Professor William Everhart was there. I don’t remember if he was still at the university as such or if he was a visitor. And that’s where my spine was left when for the first time I found a book or a book by him. which is called evolution of animal genitalia via sexual selection. And from there I was very interested in the subject, perhaps because when I did my pre -graduate thesis I had to do many genital dissection to be able to identify species of high -andean butterflies. So one thing is the work, the technical work of illustration, so to speak, the detail. all the work of illustrating and another thing is to ask why certain structures vary so much that have to do with the transfer of sperm in the case of male butterflies. From there I kept the subject to continue and continue to review and continue to review and then I had the opportunity to do the thesis in the master’s degree on an evolutionary question and I necessarily had to fall back into the subject of the genitalia.

10:37and its variation within the populations, and everything led me towards sexual selection. Inventories dominate the field. These inventories, in our case, are focused on insects and more specifically, lepidopterans records. It means recognizing diversity and all these kinds of traditional work. Identify how insects are distributed, counting their numbers, and even naming new species is very common in Colombia, especially concerning insects. but asking questions about sexual selection in a context like ours is quite unusual. I was also fortunate to attend lectures at the University of Valle when Professor William Everhart was there. That’s where my curiosity began when I first came across his book called Evolution of Animal Genitalia via Sexual Selection and I became very interested in this topic. Perhaps because when I was working on my undergraduate thesis I had to dissect the genitalia extensively to identify high -gandy and butterfly species. So there’s the technical work of illustration, so to speak, and the attention to detail and the craft of illustrating. But then there is the question, why do certain structures related to sperm transfer vary so much in male butterflies?

11:54Among species, I mean. That topic stuck with me. I kept exploring and later… I had the opportunity to focus my master thesis on an evolutionary question. I inevitably had to delve back into the topic of genitalia and its variation within populations. Everything was leading me towards sexual selection. Well, considering precisely all these intricates of sexual selection and the evolution of insect genitalia, Why do you think studying this field is important or interesting for science and for people in general, not only for scientists? of the population in the organisms, eye and in their conservation, in reproduction.

12:58I think that if we learn a little to understand the biological variables that regulate the reproduction processes in the populations, understand animal populations or plants as they want, even corals, obviously animals. If we understand the mechanisms of reproduction. o más bien obtenemos mucha información que puede ser relevante para su conservación.

13:24Yo creo que realizar planes de conservación con base en la simple distribución de las especies no es suficiente. A mí me parece que si conocemos un poquito de su reproducción, tenemos mejor información y mejores herramientas para entender cómo conservar las especies. Yo sí creo que hay que estimular a los trabajos que tengan que ver con reproducción, no solo con el tema de la genitalia, que parece un tema extraño. Es más, incluso entre jóvenes me dicen, profe, ¿y eso se estudia? Lo que pasa es que el punto es que una estructura como la genitalia animal, en el caso de los insectos, no solo es para la transferencia de esperma, tiene una cantidad de variables comportamentales, de selección y, entre comillas, de toma de decisiones animales. that determine the continuity or not of the same species. So that’s why I say that if we understand the variables that are at play at the time of reproduction, we understand how to conserve a lot of the fauna that exists in those countries that are of enormous diversity.

14:32Anyone who does zoo breeding, even anyone who breeds in farms, even anyone who does a basic breeding exercise. It knows very well that if it controls certain variables, it will be successful in the reproduction of what it is breeding. The same thing happens with the knowledge of the variables at the environmental level, at the biological level, at the natural level, it seems to me. So it is very important for conservation. And in addition to conservation, for education and for marveling at the number of possibilities that there are of reproductive behavior in organisms.

15:08Yes, how do we simplify it? How do we make it accessible? How do we make it in a way practical? It is practical not just for those passionate about the topic or within the circle of experts discussing it. For me, the core of population biology and conservation lies in reproduction. I believe that if we learn to understand the biological variables regulating reproduction in populations, be it animal or plant populations, even corals, which are, of course, animals, we gain valuable insights that can be relevant for the conservation. I think creating conservation plans solely based on species distribution is not enough. It seems to me that if we have some knowledge about their reproduction, we have better information and tools to understand how to preserve species. I genuinely believe we should encourage research related to reproduction, not just focusing on genitalia, which might seem like an unusual topic. In fact, even among young people, I hear them say, professor, is that really studied?

16:14The thing is, a structure like animal genitalia, in the case of insects, isn’t just for sperm transfer. It involves a myriad of behavioral selection variables and figuratively speaking, animal decision -making processes. that determine continuity or extinction of the species that’s why i say if we understand the variables at play during reproduction we comprehend how to conserve much of the diverse fauna in countries blessed with an immense biodiversity Anyone involved in animal husbandry, even those who run farms, or anyone engaged in basic breeding exercises, know very well that controlling certain variables leads to success in the reproduction of the species they are raising. Oh, that sounds really interesting.

17:03And changing a little bit the topic, one of the aspects we are eager to explore in this program is how scientists find a balance between their family life and their academic career. How do you manage this? challenging task yo yo no sé si si me eligieron porque saben que tengo familia o si la pregunta va a ser abierta para cualquiera persona que ejerce el oficio de lo que llamamos ciencia el oficio de preguntar digo yo que creo que la pregunta responde a un estereotipo que existe respecto a la imposibilidad de tener familia cuando se es un científico Bueno, es que la misma connotación de científico puede ser un cliché.

17:48Es decir, preguntar y el ejercicio de preguntar a nivel sobre cosas naturales y tratar de responderlas no es contradictorio con el ejercicio de tener un niño en casa o tener una familia. En mi caso, obvio que es difícil. ¿Qué es difícil? El manejo de los tiempos, el manejo de las variables, el manejo de los… of the boys, but everything requires a space and a moment and I think they are not incompatible, they are more like getting out of the stereotype of the person who has to be focused on a topic and does not require any single noise to concentrate. For me that is false.

18:32I think that who leads the family, the well -being of the family, nothing more and nothing less, with which to solve questions, that is, to do science. asking questioning asking questioning and the exercise of asking about natural phenomena and trying to answer them it is not contradictory to having a child at home or having a family in my case it’s obviously challenging to manage time handle variables and deal with the little ones, but everything requires a space and a moment.

19:17And I don’t think they are incompatible. It’s more about breaking away from the stereotype of someone who must be completely focused on a topic and can’t stand any distractions. To me, that’s false. I believe that combining family well -being with the pursuit of answering questions, in other words, doing science, maybe slows down… the pace of progress a bit, but it compensates greatly in terms of quality of life. Moreover, it enhances the quality of the person working on the scientific inquiry. Absolutely. Your point is fascinating because asking questions is indeed a very childlike exercise, isn’t it? The act of living with your children when they are young and all that, perhaps what they do is enrich the scientific process rather than hinder it.

20:09Don’t you think? How do you see it? de la manera como se ensamblan las cosas. Entonces, si las cosas van de la mano en coordinación más o menos con todas las discrepancias que puedan haber, porque esto es así, esto es discutible, las cosas funcionan. Pero lo que quiero llegar es que en el momento en el que estoy, yo tengo gente adolescente a mi alrededor, niñas, entre los 15 y los 17 años, pero yo recuerdo muy bien que yo haciendo el examen de… candidatura para el doctorado, que me tocó hacerlo virtual. La menor, que tenía 14 años en ese momento, cuando yo terminé mi disertación como de dos horas y de preguntarme, y ustedes saben lo que es una defensa de candidatura, resultó que ya estaba interesadísima y súper respetuosa de la situación, y hasta me pasaba papelitos diciéndome, no vayas a decir esto, estás hablando bien. because the exercise was virtual. So we definitely can’t think of doing

21:44an exercise of a person who is in the center of scientific things, disconnected from their family environment. It’s part of the same scenario. I don’t wear the robe to become a scientist, that’s how it is. I’m the same human that comes from a… Yes, you know, I have teenagers now.

22:28I’ve already gone through the diaper phase of my doctoral journey, I would say. It’s not easy, but it depends on the projects you have with your partner. It depends on how things come together. So if things are in sync, more or less, despite any disagreements, because let’s face it, disagreements happen, and these things are debatable. But what I want to emphasize is that at this point in my life, I have teenagers around me, girls between the ages of 15 and 17. And I vividly remember how, for example, during my candidature exam, my doctoral candidature exam, which I had to do virtually, my youngest daughter was present.

23:09She was around 14 years old at the time. When I finished my two -hour dissertation and questions, and you know what a candidacy defense is like, she was incredibly interested and respectful of the situation. She even passed me notes saying things like don’t say this, you’re doing great. So we definitely cannot think of a person deeply engaged in scientific endeavors as being disconnected from their family. It’s a part of the same context.

23:40I don’t put on a lab coat to become a scientist. I’m the same human being who come… From a home, a family with psychological and social variables. And if I belong to an institution, I perform the role of an educator or within the framework of that institution. Or maybe as a thesis advisor. Someone who asks questions and explores methods. Things we all do as scientists. And to provide a bit more context about this question, it is because often… job opportunities for scientists aren’t very abundant, but it’s very challenging.

24:18Moving to different places is quite common and there is a significant disruption in the lives of scientists in general. So these challenges are typically managed either remotely or by distributing the responsibilities within the family. y tiene que tener un mínimo de orden y un mínimo de proyección.

24:46No puede existir un azar incompleto de venir así al azar para desarrollar un núcleo familiar y ejercer docencia e investigación. Esto requiere una organización. Por eso digo que no es fácil. Eso tiene sus subidas y sus bajadas, pero depende mucho… Exactly. Building a family is a project, just as significant as an academic endeavor.

25:30And it requires a minimum level of planning and projection. It demands organization. That’s why I say it’s not easy. It comes with its risks, but it depends on personal and partnership projects. Well, considering the last question, and as you mentioned, you have already addressed it. But as you said, it’s a plan that you have to put into action, even in comprehensive planning.

25:56I don’t know if you have found any particular strategy that seems useful to you in maintaining that family connection. also dedicating sufficient time and focus to your work as an educator and researcher? posibilidades de manejar las cosas bien. Cuando ya tienes adolescentes es más fácil, creo yo. Pero definitivamente se necesita un espacio, se necesita un espacio de estudio, un lugar de estudio reservado para eso, para el estudio. Se necesita un muy buen manejo del tiempo porque tener una familia, ser una persona que se dedica a hacer investigación y tener familia requiere de sacrificios y requiere de… also give times. So it’s a balance. It’s a balance between time management, the stability of the family and the herd, to put it in a way. If we are a group and I can’t move away because I have to do my things. At times, yes, you have to make decisions to concentrate for a while on certain

27:26things. But in most cases, everything, everything walks in a group and is even discussed in a group. Certainly. I think it involves managing time and space. When I mention space, I’m referring to home environment, specifically the study space.

27:53Think about virtuality. Having an appropriate space for studying is crucial. Of course, during the stage of being a parent to babies, it’s almost impossible to manage things effectively. As your children grow into teenagers, it becomes easier, I believe. But you still need designated spaces. A study space, a reserved place for that purpose is necessary. Excellent time management is essential because juggling family life, research and career commitments requires sacrifices and setting aside dedicated times. It’s a balancing act. It’s a balance between managing time, maintaining family stability and the family unit, so to speak. We are a group, and I cannot isolate myself because I have work to do. Sometimes decisions need to be made to focus on specific tasks, but in most cases, everything is a collaborative effort, and even decisions are discussed as a group.

28:51I’m not as complicated as it might seem. It depends on the flow of communication and the connection you have with your family, with your children, and your partner or partners. Tell us a bit more about your family. How do you think they view your career in academia? But if we discuss with the mayor, we already discussed, she says that Colombia needs environmental law, people who know environmental law to actually defend the resources, because according to her, biologists do not do more for the resources. I think that with respect to the profession, to the difference, something of admiration a lot when they saw us in the virtual reality, because the virtual reality allowed us to see what to do with each one. and play a rule of the game that did not exist before.

30:01So, from that virtual teaching and see all the effort so that a class goes well and all the organization that requires and the management of language and resources, I think they won a lot. And your wife is also in science, right? And she is also in teaching and also in research. So… Yes, my daughters are teenagers, as I told you, and they explore the musical world which leads to some beautiful exchanges. So there’s a mutual respect. I won’t say it’s the utmost admiration to my scientific endeavors, but there are curiosity and respect. In this space, we respect each other’s pursuits. I talk to them sometimes. I don’t want them to follow my path blindly. But we do discuss things, especially with my older daughter. For example, she believes…

31:21Colombia needs environmental law experts, people who understand environmental law to genuinely defend our resources, because according to her, biologists don’t do much for the resources. There is respect for the profession, acknowledgement of differences, some admiration, especially when they saw us in the virtual spaces, because virtuality allowed them to see what each of us does and play by rules that didn’t exist before. So from the efforts in virtual teaching, the meticulous planning and the language of resources management, I believe they’ve gained a lot. In fact, your wife is also in the field of science, right?

32:04That’s right. And she’s also someone who teaches and is involved in research. So our daughters are not stereotypical science nerds, nevertheless. No, they are normal girls, especially in the realm of music. They are passionate about… Janera Music and have pursued their own paths. We all complement each other in our diverse interests. So it’s an entrepreneurial news environment and it works really well for us. Well, moving into a more general topic and less personal, we also want to ask you if you have ever encountered any barriers in your professional or academic life while trying to pursue your family life.

32:45And how do you think these barriers might affect scientists in general? Look, Daniel, barriers are of time, of mobility, of the social thing, of budget, of resources, of having to overcome, of betting almost with your own resources, betting on the development of ideas. For those who do not understand, I mean the barriers that exist to access resources. opportunities for students who work with one to develop their research work, from the basic budget to do field work to the infrastructure for data management. So there are many barriers, that is, barriers are what there are, but precisely the challenge of this trade And if the phrase does not sound like a drawer, the passion in this trade is to do what we can best for what we like. And in that sense, overcome barriers that can be from idioms. If you look at the standard, it has to be in English.

34:01That is already a barrier. And sometimes we have very good people with a human quality and thinking to produce. but there is a deficiency, for example, in the other language, and that becomes a process that slows down the work. I tell the students to do it for themselves and even what I tell them with their own resources, but the goal is to finish the bet we got into. And fortunately, almost all the students who… that have passed through my stages, I say, have had success, good success, despite the fact that the labor world is hard. Graduating sometimes means leaving a state of academic lethargy to a society in which opportunities are not the same. So almost leaving the university is a strong shock while I project my academic approaches and the search for resources again. Well, I think the barriers are related to time, mobility, social aspects, budget, constraints, resources, and even investing one’s own resources in developing ideas. For those who may not understand, I’m referring to challenges in accessing resources and opportunities for students working with me

35:33to conduct their research. That’s an example. From basic fieldwork budgets to data management infrastructure. So, there are numerous barriers. That’s the reality. But precisely, the challenge in this profession, and pardon the cliché, lies in the passion for doing the best we can for what we love. In that sense, it’s about overcoming barriers, which can range from language barriers, like the standard English requirement in academic publications, which is in itself a barrier. Sometimes we have exceptionally talented individuals with great humanity and innovative thoughts, but there might be a deficiency, for example, in proficiency in another language, which becomes a hurdle and slows down the process. I encourage my students to navigate this journey on their own. Even with limited resources, the goal is to finish the commitment we have undertaken. Thankfully, almost all the students who have been through my programs, I like to think they have succeeded. Despite the harsh realities of the job market, graduation often means transitioning from an academic cocoon, so to speak, to a society where opportunities aren’t always equal. So, leaving university can be a harsh reality check, but while I re -evaluate my academic pursuits and resources, seeking strategies, the determination to move forward remains constant.

37:01I think that’s the most important part. Certainly! Taking into account these barriers, do you believe these challenges could also impact, for instance, the family life of researchers or students? Many students already have families and face the same hurdles, right? How do you think this affects their family life? Necesitas tener una familia, necesita una infraestructura, es decir, necesita un espacio donde vivir, todo un plan de trabajo, todo un plan familiar versus el plan laboral.

37:48Entonces, quien es joven y empieza una vida académica, una vida de investigación y además una vida familiar, es un sacrificio muy grande, es exageradamente grande. Yo, si podría dar un consejo, es… Take it easy, develop yourself intellectually with the possibilities that academic and personal work gives you. And at the right time and with the right times, make family decisions. The decisions are personal, obviously, but if I touch the family with the research. debo tener unos mismos obvios para poder funcionar bien como familia y como persona interesada en la investigación. No puedes desligar nada decidido. Es decir, habría varias etapas. Una es iniciar un proyecto familiar estando en plena desarrollo académico o científico, si se dice así. Es un escenario bastante difícil.

39:01Otra etapa es ya… You have a professional development of, let’s say, some stability and make the decision to have a family. It’s different. That’s why I say that if you are in the stage, I don’t know, I can’t put a range of years, but let’s say that if you are between 23 and 30 and I don’t know, two, you are in the moment when the academy is yours. And once you achieve a certain threshold, if you achieve it. You are in a good time to make family decisions. Not having a family is not a crime either. But if you think in a complementary way, I say, of generating a family nucleus. I think I was not an old, old dad, but I was not a young dad. So maybe success is a bit based on having certain conditions of stability. no solo laboral, sino mental, para desarrollar el núcleo familiar y el núcleo científico, si lo quieres ver así. Yes, it impacts a lot, quite significantly. When you start the family, you need to understand that you require a minimum level of organization and stability. You need a living space, a plan for your family life, which needs to be balanced against your professional plan. So if you are young and embarking on an academic and research career, while also maintaining

40:32a family life, it’s an enormous sacrifice. It’s exceedingly challenging. If I could offer any advice, it would be to take it easy, to intellectually develop yourself within the possibilities offered by your academic and personal life. Make family decisions at the right time and in the right circumstances. You can’t separate everything. I would say there are several stages. One is starting a family while you are still… in the midst of your academic or scientific development if you start that way it’s a considerable tough scenario another stage is when you have achieved a certain level of professional stability a certain level of time development and making the decision to start the family then is different that’s why i said if you are in the stage i don’t know i can’t pinpoint an exact age range but let’s say between 23 and 30 That’s the time when academia should be your focus. Once you reach a certain threshold, if you manage to achieve it, that’s a good time to make family decisions. But not having a family is not a crime. I didn’t become a father until I was older. So perhaps the key to success lies in having certain conditions of stability, not just professionally, but also mentally, to nurture both your family and scientific endeavors. If you see it that way, you know.

42:02Based on what you have mentioned and considering the age of scientists and individuals working in the field of science, what advice would you give them or give to people pursuing a career in the academia, but also perceive a family as a barrier? There you already have a barrier, that is, you already have a situation to solve.

42:34So if the family is an obstacle for your development, don’t have a family. Because at first you’re already thinking it’s going to be an obstacle. So develop. What is the risk? What is the consequence? It is obvious, the decision -making has to be dimensioned in time. perhaps later you will no longer be the person with the right age to have a child. So you have to be clear, you have to dimension the time of the decisions, that is, not only to make the decision, but that a decision will mean a long time of development, whether it is to be a scientist alone, without a family, it will have its consequences of dimensions in time, or whether it is to… If you perceive family life as a barrier to your professional development, then you already have a challenge to overcome. If having a family seems like an obstacle to your progress, then perhaps it’s best to delay starting a family. If you view it as a hindrance from the beginning, it’s essentially to assess Your priorities and decide when the right time for family planning might be. Considering your career goals and personal aspirations. Balancing family life and an academic career requires careful

44:06consideration and is crucial to make decisions that align with your individual circumstances and ambitions. Living academia is often seen as a failure. Although these choices don’t actually constitute a failure, this label persists in various environments. What are your thoughts on this? If you stop doing this job in an institutional way, I think that you are young people, Daniel, I think, and Linda, I think that whoever is involved in this is clear that this is a philosophy of life. This is one, right? And that a change, a change of personality, a change of variables, a change of of scenarios, it is possible. But I think that who was born to be in this, to ask themselves the things of nature and natural phenomena, if we want to see it that way, that is innate.

45:09Maybe the institutional exercise is abandoned, but the mental one, I doubt it. I believe that those who are deeply involved in this field understand that it’s philosophy of life, and a change in personality, circumstances, or environment is possible. Those who are naturally inclined to question the natural world and natural phenomena tend to view it as an inherent part of themselves.

45:38While one might stay away from institutional practices, the mental exercise, I believe, remains ingrained. It’s not a failure, it’s a change of path. What I want to emphasize is that for those of us living in a country like Colombia, with so many social, work -related and obviously family -related variables, if we don’t leave this profession, or rather if we leave it, it will be due to compelling circumstances. But for those of us deeply engaged in this field, with a specific conviction, making a retreat that we would label as a failure is difficult to think. Perhaps an institutional departure is entirely possible, but a mental withdrawal, a loss of interest in something that has allowed us to develop, that doesn’t happen. And well, finally, could you share a funny or unusual anecdote that you have experienced during your research or through your career? In an academic thing in which William Everhart came, as I told you, that’s where my questions about sexual selection started. In a talk that he gave, the title of the talk was something like Sex and Reproduction, something like that. He himself told me that he had put the talk like that to have it public.

46:58He has a certain sarcastic humor and indeed many people came interested in the title of the talk, but… When he started showing mosquito videos in the talk, more than one was disappointed because they thought it was a matter of humans and the title was too big. Maybe if he had put sexual reproduction strategies in animals, I don’t know, invertebrates, maybe the audience would have been much more from the academy, but a lot of people came in. where the fun of the matter comes from, many people entered the talk interested in the wide spectrum title of the talk, sex and I don’t know what, but they found a number of mosquito videos, images of flies in sophisticated devices to understand how the genitalia and the transfer of the sperm worked and everything that means the control event of reproduction in those little animals. So that seemed very good to me because a lot of people started to retire in the middle of the talk. I said, but why are they leaving? Of course, many came thinking that this was a talk about, in quotation marks, sex, human sex. Who knows? Well, Gonzalo, I think those were the questions we had prepared. We want to thank you for your time, for your answers, for sharing a little about your family life too.

48:31which are personal things and it is very interesting, just as people know them in general terms to, precisely as we were talking about, remove a little the veil that there is on what to be a scientist and the people who are dedicated to it. And how interesting when someone retires, very cool and very interesting to know why they retire, in quotes. I think retirement is institutional, not mental. Yes, during my research, there are several anecdotes, but I remember one when William Everhart visited. As I mentioned before, that’s when my questions about sexual selection began.

49:25In one of his talks, the title was something like sex and reproduction. He told me himself that he had named the talk that way to attract an audience. Many people were intrigued by the title of the talk, but when he started showing videos of mosquitoes mating during the presentation, more than a few were disappointed, because they thought it would be more focused on humans considering the grand title. Many attendees came in expecting a broad discussion on sex and something, probably in human context. But instead, they were greeted with a series of videos featuring mosquitoes and images of flies mating. Well, Gonzalo, I believe those were the questions we have prepared.

50:10We want to thank you for your time, for your answers and for sharing a bit about your family life as well. These are personal matters and it’s very interesting for people to know these aspects in general. Just as we were discussing, it helps lift the veil on scientific work and the individuals behind it. Yes, indeed. It’s very interesting, for example, when we talk when someone retires, it’s cool and fascinating to know the reasons behind their retirement. I believe retirement is more of an institutional decision than a mental one, as I said. There you go. In fact, in my opinion, many individuals who retire from institutions end up being more productive after retirement. They free themselves from certain administrative and academic burdens, so to speak.

51:05Gonzalo, thank you for sharing so much personal information and for joining us in the premiere of Science Behind the Glass, Illuminating the Human Side. We look forward to having you in the next episode for the second part of this topic. Joined by Dr. Osiris Gaona, she will share her experience on how to maintain a balance between academia and life. This podcast is self -funded and self -edited, but it’s host. We appreciate your audience. Please share and find us on YouTube, Spotify, and our official website. Thank you.