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Transcript

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0:01Who are the characters behind science? This is Science Behind the Glass, illuminated in the human side. In this podcast, we unveil the human side of laboratories and science. Scientists share personal experiences, and we discuss their meanings from different perspectives and fields of research. Welcome to Science Behind the Glass, the podcast where we explore the human side of science and storytelling. Today, we are excited to have Rafael Jordan. Join us a talented filmmaker and cinematographer from Naples, Italy, who has brought some of the most captivating stories to life on screen. Rafael’s work has taken him from the Peruvian tropical forests to the deserts of Uluru, Australia, capturing the beauty and complexity of the natural world. Rafael’s unique perspective is shaped by his diverse cultural background and global experiences. He holds a Bachelor of Arts in Filmmaking from the Svenska Film Institutes and a Master’s in Cinematography and Post -Production from the University of Greenwich in London. His work with NGOs like Greenpeace and the Rainforest Foundation highlights the impact of climate change and advocates for indigenous rights and social justice. Notably, he documented the collaboration between Chinese artists Xu Xiaoping and the Anangu people and explored the European migrant crisis in his ongoing project.

1:27among other work. Throughout his career, Rafael has filmed in challenging locations and created impactful short films. His work has been showcased at prestigious film festivals, including the Melbourne Film Festival, London Film Festival, and the Camera Image Cinematography Film Festival. Additionally, he has contributed to major motion pictures and TV series for HBO, Netflix, Paramount, and Fox Pictures. With his expertise in cinematography, Rafael grabs stunning visuals that transport viewers to new and exciting works. Today, we dive into experiences, challenges, and inspirations behind Rafael Biorzano’s remarkable work. Besides, Rafael has been helping us behind the scenes in this podcast with all the promotions and with all his talent. Thank you, Rafa, for accepting this invitation. Yeah, no, thank you. What an intro. It’s an honor to be here. Thank you so much for both of you, Linda and Daniel. To start, Rafa, we would like you to tell us about your journey into filmmaking. What inspired you to become a filmmaker and a cinematographer? That’s interesting. I guess the tale probably started as a child. I was quite curious about, like, analyzing about different worlds and stuff. But I was quite into science as a child, actually.

2:57So when I was asked by my parents what I wanted to be, it was always like, oh, I want to be a scientist when I grew up. Yeah, I grew up in Naples, Italy. So it’s south of Italy. It’s quite a unique place. I was quite privileged to grow up there because it’s a very visually unique place, I shall say. city in southern Italy. So it’s since the ancient Greeks. So it’s plenty of visually stimulating things happening. So as a child, I was quite privileged to be exposed to art throughout my very early childhood. So I was always captivated by, you know, like classical paintings and the Renaissance art form, as well as architectural. which is quite important going into my work because it’s like not just a color palette, but also the way things are composed are very important to my early childhood. So you’ll see a lot of the colors that I use in my work. It all entails to me growing up in Naples because it’s got a unique color palette and colors reflect emotions. So as a cinematographer, you always try to entail subliminally. a way to communicate with your audience visually right by camera movements or by colors or by lighting something that captivated

4:28me through there and getting all you know like transitioning to later stages of my life i was really into filmmaking and independent films being produced up in sweden so i’m a huge fan of roy anderson which is a swedish director from there so And I was really, really captivated by the editing style and how he shot stuff. So I hunted down who the editor was for his films.

4:58And he was teaching at a university in Sweden. So I decided to pursue my studies there. It was a bit challenging because I had to learn the language, of course. I was so captivated and passionate and interested about. It almost engulfed me in a way. I was only thinking about filmmaking, producing films, making creatively. After I finished my bachelor, I took a break in my studies and I decided to put my skills into practice. I was fortunate to be based in Amsterdam and Greenpeace International office is based out of there. So I was working for Greenpeace first as a video librarian. I was fortunate to be in the hands of two very skilled video producers. One of them is Lucy Camberwell, which was there and she guided me very much in my footsteps on documentary filmmaking.

6:00After that, I just went into a master’s in cinematography. So I just really specialized into the field. of filmmaking. And within cinematography, I specialized in in -camera effects. So it’s a very old technique of filming, which is how to do special effects that are not composed through computers. So it’s all in camera. So it’s a bit of my background.

6:26And of course, it’s taken me in different parts of the world. I’ve been quite fortunate throughout my whole career, I must say. Well, that sounds amazing. You have a big inspiration from everywhere, from when you grew up. And also, I’m pretty sure that you have people that inspire you to continue your path. And what have been the biggest challenges that you have faced while documenting? You have worked with communities. So documenting these communities and places that you have visited, what have been the biggest challenges and how do you overcome them? Yeah, of course. Yes. I mean, I worked in different regions of the world with indigenous communities, even here where I’m residing now in Australia, like at the foothill of Uluru, there is a community that’s called Mutijulo, which are the guardian of Uluru, which is a formation of rock that is just pretty much in the center of Australia. And then other communities like in South America, in Peru with Yaxánica, or in Ecuador with the Yeshua people. Well, the challenges is, of course, access. Most of these communities, especially in the Amazonia region, access is quite tricky. And a lot of it entailed really intricate ways to access them. And as well as like most of these communities, why?

7:58Sadly, what I was going there is to document their struggles, how they’re being affected, their livelihood. Predominantly was to do with how climate change or how globalization really affected their livelihood, right? So like along the Rio Aene in the Peruvian Amazonian basin, there’s a group of community. from the Ashan Ecos tribes that lived along there. And a multinational company wanted to build a hydroelectric electric dam into that region. So to bring power over to the other side, because Rio Aene flows into Brazil, to bring power into there. Of course, that’s devastating for their ecosystem, not just for the livelihood of all the diverse ecosystem that’s there, but even for their own, because they… They were very, very dependent on the water. And taking away their waterhood is detrimental for them. And since they’re so remote out there, unfortunately, these larger entities take advantage of this situation. And corruption has a lot to do. And not just saying that this happened in Brazil. I’ve seen stuff in the outback in Australia that’s the living condition of some of these communities. They’re very shocking, absolutely shocking. My approach of any of my filmmaking

9:31and stuff is be, it’s like self -determination for the people, right? So self -determination going non -judgmentally and going there as an observant, as a person to document. Of course, you have to build relationships with people. To build relationships for people to open up with you is to build trust. So trust must be built. And that’s trivial in a lot of work. So there’s challenges of that as well. You have to be adaptable. And, you know, like in filmmaking, everything, you know, like you’re time constrained on how much time you can be at a location. So to make it all fit within the time is a huge constraint. And some things… you’re unable to achieve on one trip. So you also have to be mindful of that in budgets, of course, right?

10:21And that sounds really challenging, like at personal level and professionally. Yeah, it can be. It can be. You know, it’s like for people to open up and say stories because they have to trust you, right? And it’s just like, how do you build that trust within people to say very personal matters that are… you know, like affecting them on a really foundation level. And, you know, for me, coming into there almost feels like, yeah, I’m coming here to grab my footage and then I move over. But it’s like you have to be empathetic with the people as well. And it affects you, you know, like because you become so attached to this place where you are and having the struggles they’re going through. feels a bit unfair on some level on, you know, like on a political level as well. So it’s frustrating. It’s an ever -ending battle. But, you know, you have to think about the angle while you’re there. You’re there to give them a voice, right? I’m not the voice.

11:24They are the voice. Yeah. And talking precisely of this work with the indigenous communities, can you share an example or can you talk? to ask a little bit about how this documentary work has made an impact on these communities that you have visited? Yeah, sure. There is a good tale story with the Ashani community because, you know, like there was a multinational company that wanted to build a hydroelectric dam there.

11:56So with the campaign on the ground from the CARE, organization and other organizations that were overseas, like International Rivers, Rainforest Foundation, the decision -making of the dam at a political level, like within the legislation level within Peru, that was already decided to be slated and to be commenced and started. So I arrived there when the surveyors were there.

12:25So there was a bit of tension, of course, because the surveyors there are brought in with the paramilitary. The paramilitary are facilitating these projects because it’s at a governmental level, right? So we are coming as an international non -governmental organization and Boots Underground’s non -governmental organization as well. So it’s a collaborative effort for something like that to happen. And as well, it’s like documenting this, showing it to the world. and making sure that this story is known around the world. So luckily, with the help of the local campaigner there, which is Ruth Buendia, we were successful in 2014 for this project to be stopped on its course. But of course, this was one project of many along the Rio Aene River. And this is just one river in the Amazon. loads of other rivers, especially in the Brazilian side where these projects go ahead. And the devastation for the local ecosystem is catastrophic on a level because the amount of machinery that they need to bring is, what they need to do is completely clear cut forests, which is, you know, like rich, diverse ecosystem of forest need to completely be wiped out for the machineries to come in. So it’s quite devastating.

13:56Luckily for this campaign with the Paquizapango Dam, we were successful on that campaign. It took it’s a collaborate efforts between different NGOs, some based in the States, some based in Europe and CARE, which is Boots on the Ground, which is based in Satipo in Peru, which is the voice, let’s say, a voice as per se of the Ashanika people. And Ruth Buendia is the foundation of all this. Yeah, so as you mentioned, Rafa, do you know who is the company that was behind that over the age? Yeah, that’s right. Around all America, there have been a lot of cases of corruption linked to this kind of infrastructure project, and it’s just terrible. So you could say that your work helped. showing the local community’s angle and exerted pressure to the governmental institutions that already had this permission for this kind of infrastructure projects and this kind of thing. So international pressure must be like critically in this kind of approach.

15:13Yeah, of course. I mean, like that’s the aim, especially for like environmental documentary filmmaking is just bringing awareness. It’s like we’re trying on an international level. Of course, like sometimes it’s useful. Sometimes they bring in celebrities. Celebrities do help because it brings to a bigger reach of people. It’s just the more global awareness there is, there is more pressure internationally because. On a national level, like if only Peru knew about this, this project would have gone ahead, right? But if it gets on an international level, it just brings pressure. And how do you approach the ethical considerations involved in filming vulnerable communities or communities and ensuring their stories are told respectfully and accurately?

16:02That’s interesting. Yeah, really good point. Because it’s like… I go back to the self -determination. Like I’m coming in as a filmmaker. I’m a server. I try to be there as somebody that’s documenting a very neutral aspect. Saying that filmmaking is a tool that you have the power to dictate the story, right? By how you capture and how you edit it. But saying that is just like what I would try to facilitate with is for, you know, like local organizations. So boots on the ground to review footage, to see what is sensitive and what is not sensitive for them to be able to show. And as well, it’s like building a trust with people, because once you start building a trust with a person, as per se, they start opening up to you and to have that foundation.

16:53Because if you’re just coming in. You know, like us as filmmakers have a very bad reputation of just coming in, grabbing footage and going. But actually, the whole process should be you come in, not filming anything. It’s just building a relationship with the people and then starting to film and then starting to slowly open up. And you really got to get your expectations.

17:21Like if you’re coming from a very like a production. side of things that’s like for entertainment or as per se this world is completely different it’s like any variable be thrown at you and just you have to roll with it so you have to be very very adaptable you can’t have structure and the structure almost you have to throw it out of the window and just adapt and so if you’re a person that’s very adaptable I’ve camped in the middle of nowhere I’ve had to just sleep under a bush one night just to grab some footage some crazy places i’ve been at you know like just hiding between behind like paramilitary just so i can get to a location i wanted to get to for documentary filming and commodities don’t exist i’m sorry to say it’s just um sounds a bit harsh some of the locations but some locations have been amazing okay so going to the to the lighter side of this documentary work. How was this project where you involved famous actors or celebrities into the indigenous people’s cause?

18:35And how was the documentary that you were filming involved in there? I would hope it would be on a lighter side, but it’s to document quite sad. unfortunately, is deforestation in the Congo region. You know, like, so Greenpeace International was asked, you know, French actress Marianne Cotillard to be involved into documentation of the deforestation in the Congo Basin. So it’s one of the oldest forests and, of course, the lungs of the world. As I was going earlier, celebrities sometimes are used as a way for to bring in more awareness to a bigger reach of audience, as per say, you know, like, unfortunately, with this project here, there wasn’t any conclusion of it is more of a documentation to show celebrities as well, the disaster and the grand scale scale of things that are happening there, you know, like, not just deforestation, as per say of cutting, you know, because what happens in a rich ecosystem, when you do a clear cut, and you and you plant a monoculture, It’s completely devastating, not just for the land itself, but the diverse ecosystem that is on that land. By bringing in a celebrity, it’s a way for non -governmental organizations to get a bigger reach so the word goes out. Unfortunately,

20:06I can’t say it to good stories of Congo. Congo, unfortunately, is still in a civil war. It was at the time as well. we’re filming there so and that campaign like uh like i was helping to reduce this forestation and just increase awareness and yeah increase awareness yeah like congo is because of the civil war like that the governmental structure there is really like unstable uh to have change there is very challenging in any war -torn country um Because it varies from region to region that you go on who controls the land.

20:48And of course, multinational companies take advantage of that where there’s war -torn countries. It’s like a goldmine for them. They go in and they know they can bend the rules very easily by bribing and corruption and so forth. So it’s more to bring awareness, Linda, is just to make sure that the world knows what’s happening. And the world understands of, you know, like the catastrophe and the consequences of this if this keeps on going, unfortunately. Yeah. And about the celebrities, do you think that their commitment goes to the long run or they are just like the known face that will help to promote the cause? And that’s it. Well, that’s interesting because actually like Rainforest Foundation was founded by Sting and his wife. So that’s an over, over going like successful partnership of like using of like private funds. You have to bear in mind that a lot of these non -governmental organizations are privately funded, right? So like Greenpeace is fully privately funded. It does get very, very little governmental funding. Funding is rich entrepreneurs or celebrities, of course, are part of that. A lot of them do it for PR, perhaps, because it looks good for their agenda.

22:19But some have good intentions. And I’ve met some that had good intentions behind their work. Yeah, I would say it doesn’t matter if they invest the funds in something that’s worth it. Yeah, absolutely. You know, like if you have a bit of wealth that you can utilize to help campaigners because campaigners, you know, are working at a governmental level as well as working in different means of, you know, like communication tools on how to bring the message forward, right? Right.

22:51And as a filmmaker, how do you integrate your artistic vision with your advocacy objectives to create impactful and meaningful work? Actually, I have a question, but it’s a quite naive question. Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the big difference between filmmaking and cinema? Okay, so yeah, you work hand -in -hand with a director to create the visual look of the film, but not just with the director, because if you’re working on a motion picture film, you have an art director.

23:26and you have a costume director. So the cinematographer has a really trivial point because what he’s trying to do is trying to translate the director’s vision visually. He has to collaborate with the costume designers in regards to colors, what colors need to be used and what textures and what materials need to be used because it conveys, of course, emotions. in certain colors that we use, certain palettes, as well as very, very trivial on working hand -in -hand with the art direction. The art direction, again, with colors, textures, and composition of how things need to be laid out because there might be particular camera moves that dictate a scene for a director.

24:17So it’s trivial that the art director understands because every position there is to facilitate. for the director’s vision so the cinematographer is pretty much in charge of all the visuals of it not just camera but as well lighting of it so lighting is very important because lighting conveys emotions so how do you use lighting in a way to convey particular emotions of a scene well you need to understand it’s like as a cinematographer you need to understand physics Because you need to understand what the lens can give you, right?

24:55So there’s like a really important equation that a cinematographer knows, which is called the circle of confusion. So it’s from the image plane to where your object is. And it’s like conveying different optics on different emotional state, right? So if I come really close to the lens, I feel quite intimidated because I’m right in front of you. I step back and I zoom in. It feels like, okay, we’re at a safe distance, but we’re getting personal with you. So you can use lens in a way to transcribe and convey emotions. It’s quite important. It’s quite a powerful tool.

25:37And lighting is just insane. I got so obsessed with lighting that later in my career, I just narrowed down and I was just trying to understand lighting. Got quite interested in it because I saw the power within it. A lot of people that watch films don’t see these things, but it’s all derived on how we translate little connections that we have with scenes and characters. It all derives through our experiences in our life.

26:13Like key events in our life have dictated, have mapped. things in our subconscious, right? That we connect with. So how do you trigger those things? As a creative, it’s quite interesting because you can really captivate your audience and you can direct them in ways that hopefully create a connection, right? You create connections through the lighting and how do you transmit the emotions of that? of people for example for your advocacy and the objectives that you have in documentary to different for example the light that you use in each moment and how that person communicates and you transmit it because it can be quite regular or plain but yeah yeah yeah of course like um as a film like a documentary filmmaker is like unfortunately like usually you’re a smaller crew right So you try to find particular points in the day that you can film scenes. Like there’s a particular point of the day that us filmmakers know as the magic hour.

27:22It’s sunset because it’s more golden hour. So that warmer lighting conveys, you know, like more warmth of emotions for it. You avoid… uh like midday light because it’s quite harsh but maybe the harsh lighting and the harsh composition can convey tense emotions right it’s just it’s like tools that you develop kind of almost uh sam like you pocket them in your pocket and then you just take them out it’s like uh you have a deck of cards and you’re like oh yeah i can use this trick yeah that is beautiful when you are watching a movie or any any visual product and you see a scene that moves you but you don’t know exactly why it moves you and when you think about all of these that you are explaining to us the lining the the angles the camera movements and there there is a logic to it and the aesthetics of it and how it connects with your emotions that is very nice the music daddy likes depressing movies i guess we can get rid of that part among with these these projects you have work on do you have a favorite one or some project that stands out with a particular meaning maybe can you tell us about it it’s hard one to just yeah

28:52just say one project that i really um it’s close to my heart something that is still a work in progress that is working for many years uh i’m working it started in 2015 actually so it’s still going which is with the uh migration crisis that was in europe uh so i was documenting uh you know like the refugee influx that that took europe not just from war -torn syria at the time uh but as well what i was quite interested in is uh the influx of migrants that was coming over the Mediterranean. Because those migrants came from Northern Africa or deeper into Africa. So that actually interested me because a lot of those migrants were coming via boat to Libya.

29:40And some of them were just like, you know, like paying quite all their life savings to get there. But it’s just, yeah, so it’s a project that is still in the tracks of it. And I’m trying to create, for the audience, create a different point of view of borders. Borders are interesting things that have been defined predominantly in the Northern African, in the European region after the Second World War. But not just borders that we know geographically or borders that have been set, man -made as per set, but there are also invisible borders. that are trying to control movement of people. It’s a project that’s quite dear to me. So it’s still a work in progress, not realized, but is the analyzing of migration of people that first is due to, of course, conflict.

30:42Secondly, is climate. People are leaving countries because of climate change. So climate is making… you know, certain parts of the world, less habitable. So, of course, it forced people to seek a better life, right? So it’s just, yeah, it’s a project that’s still ongoing, but it’s quite dear to myself because it’s documented as taking me to some interesting places and meeting quite interesting people. Yeah, migration crisis is still ongoing.

31:20Of course. And it will keep going, unfortunately. How was the transition that you have done with documentaries and movies? What highlights or key takeaways have you gained from each type of work? Yeah, sure, sure. As you could probably see, it’s like, unfortunately, documentary filmmaking are quite taxing for yourself because of the stories are quite hard, right? So I was looking to work on like motion picture films. I was lucky that after my master’s, I had the opportunity to work on, you know, like full feature films in Pinewood Studios, which is one of the oldest and biggest studios in the United Kingdom in London. That world is different from documentary filmmaking because motion picture films have huge crews, right? So you’ll be like on a really big production can be a longer period of time span, which could be six months to eight months of crews of 400 people sometimes. And everybody having a very, very, very specific role in producing a film. So coming from. documentary filmmaking which is very arbitrarily up to your own judgment as per se and very unstructured in any way to

32:51a very very structured fine I call it it’s like a fine oiled machine the filmmaking industry but of course you meet some really interesting creatives and technicians there first because for the creative industry It’s hard for a lot of us to get work, right? It’s very competitive. So a motion picture industry, it’s like a first stepping stone for some creatives to get work and get experience. I started a very unorthodox way because I started documentary filmmaking before motion picture films. Usually it’s the other way around or they never cross over. Those worlds are very separate because they’re very, very different. And different skill set is required.

33:41Super different skill set. But yeah, some fun films I worked with in the UK. I was lucky to work on the Dark Knight trilogy with Christopher Nolan. So, of course, the Dark Knight film was one of the highest budgeted films, which is half a billion dollars. Nothing like that was ever done before. But Christopher Nolan has got such a power as a creative filmmaker. that he’s able to to get budgets like that and what uh gave us all as technicians and and as creatives uh are really the the freedom of uh of uh creating what scenes really require right usually you’re very budget strained but for a film like that you know anything you wanted to really do you can do so it’s uh it’s fun to be on you know like on set because it’s like a you become like a family of everybody that you’re working there because the amount of hours you work together it’s long days it’s very high paced and it’s um it’s quite a drive i could say and it becomes like uh such a tight -knit community of passionate people within the creative world so um it of course it had its challenges christopher nolan is a really really uh uh specific and very uh um you know, focus filmmakers, anybody that gets to that caliber are really entailed and intermixed in their work and their work is them. Right.

35:13So they expect everybody to be at that level with them. So there’s very, very, very small room for errors on those kind of films. It’s fun. It’s taken me like to work on some interesting films and meeting some interesting people, interesting actors, as per se, some. quite good people that’s right sounds exciting and demanding so well this podcast is about science so how do you think that documentaries and movies impact on science i think like as a medium like documentary filmmaking is it’s so trivial for science because it’s like convey what a lot of you know like you guys as scientists are doing uh to the broader audience right so it’s really important as a medium uh you know like filmmaking or documentary filmmaking as as an avenue to reach a general audience right so i know you guys are quite entailed and like the research that you’re doing but it’s really important for you to convey that with the general world as well because uh people don’t really have an understanding of like even the natural world that it’s all around us and how it really is intermixed in and it affects us in all different levels right um i think it’s just a it’s a really important tool to uh to use and i suggest a lot of scientists uh to explore and to to uh be in

36:47front of camera and just like even work with creative people as per se because you know you can see like as a creative What you’re trying to do is understand what the scientist is trying to convey, and you’re facilitating with them all the tools that are at disposal to commute in a visual landscape of what they’re trying to achieve, right? So I think it’s a trivial thing, and a lot of scientists should explore it in one way or another. Well, and to give a little bit of background, Rafa is also working with learning technologies and JCU. So he’s giving them the tools to the academics to try to combine all the information to the students because they spend a lot of time online watching the videos and engaging with them. So try to connect with those students. It’s really important to understand different tools and use appropriate language, which is not as easy as we think. yeah that is key actually yes yeah yeah definitely it’s just like uh different tools that are at the disposal right but it’s like we as a society now have become really like uh consuming of content and maybe not so much of like uh um you know like analytically looking at the content that we’re consuming but it’s just more of huge consumption

38:20of it so if we’re trying to visually show you know like particular topics that you’re researching can be quite important in a way to convey to a broader audience or even to an audience that has less time to spend on consuming content as per say so it’s it’s a good tool to um to explore well attention that’s true yes i wanted to say that Would you like to share a story where you defy your rules or cultural constraints to communicate or film the reality of a situation, something that has challenged you and it has been particularly difficult and you have to use different tools or challenge yourself to overcome these barriers?

39:12Yeah, I can think of a story. When was it? The last war that was in… Gaza was, I believe, in 2013. Yeah, 2013. I decided I needed to go there just because I wanted to document it. So I wanted to get to Palestine to go to Hebron because I had a fixer that was based out of there and I needed to get into the Palestinian region.

39:44So it’s quite a tricky place to get into. just because the only entry point is either to Egypt or you have to go through Jordan. There’s a big landmass to get in through. Or the easiest way is through going through Tel Aviv airport, so Israel, and then getting into the Palestinian region. Of course, going to Israel, it’s challenging because of the amount of securities they have, of course. And most people that want to go to Israel want to see Israel. I didn’t want to see Israel. I didn’t want to even spend a minute into the country. I just wanted to get into Palestine.

40:22So that was really weird for them to have a person that wanted to fly into the country to go straight into the Palestinian region. So I got questioned like there was no tomorrow. Why of my reasons were there? I was able to board the plane, a very peculiar plane with only two other people. But once I landed, I got treated as a, you know, because Palestinians are treated as second citizens in, fortunately, most have to go through Israel through it. It’s a way for them to control the population through those borders, even though it’s not in their borders. So once you land in Tel Aviv, there’s two rooms that you get taken in. A room is just for like… Israeli or terrorist.

41:10One is for Palestinians. Only Palestinians go in there. And I was in that room, questioned for hours on my reasoning and everything with it, why my reasoning was there. I just, I tried a technique that I try sometimes. It’s just of speaking my native tongue. My native tongue, it is in Italian. So I was just speaking, I said, I only speak Italian and I’m… we can conversate in italian if you feel comfortable and i conversated the whole time i could see that the uh you know like securities were quite um you know very not comfortable speaking and they asked me numerous times to go into speak in english i said i just don’t speak english i said let’s go in italian so and they wanted to know the reasoning while i was there and It was just like, why would you want to go there? I was like, I’m interested into seeing Hebron. And there’s a tomb of Abraham there. Hebron is a hotspot in the conflict between Israel and Palestine because it’s a shared, it’s a mosque. It’s a mosque and a synagogue in the same spot. The tomb of Abraham is finely divided in half. The Jews see it from the top. the Muslim Palestinians see it from the bottom. And they’re fighting for this. And the Israeli settlers are

42:40in Hebron just because of proving a point. They want access to this tomb, right? So I got access into, out of Tel Aviv, got a taxi over to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is… The Damascus wall defines the border between the two lands, right? I don’t speak Arabic. I just got into a car and I said to the person, I need to go here. I didn’t know if this guy was a taxi driver or not. I said, can you take me here? Here’s some money. So let’s go. So he took me down. I had no clue where I was going. I was hoping for the best. The scenery was gorgeous. I felt. i don’t know like i have a deep connection to the levant area like the uh levant areas the assyria lebanon and uh you know now israel and palestine i don’t know it’s like maybe a deep connection within me uh so it felt very calming the whole trip there even though if you would ask me now i’m like you’ll be crazy to go in a car with you got no clue who this fella is anyway i made it into to hebron And I got picked up from the fixer, the person that I was going there for. And yeah, I had an interesting time there documenting all there.

44:07Of course, I couldn’t really say what I was going there for. So I had to film a lot of things behind the scenes. But yeah, I’ve got plenty of stories like that. That’s one that was a little bit of an interesting tale on how to get to a place. And yeah. Wow. Maybe you’ll find it interesting. That’s so exciting. That’s scary. Yeah, no, I don’t know. I’m a weird character because I feed off, like, excitement like that. So, yeah, like, I’ve got into, like, yeah, weird things, like, just to, like, if I have a name of something I want to do, I’d achieve it some way or another.

44:54I try to problem solve it as I go. That’s really important for documentary filmmaking because you get thrown stuff like that all the time. It’s like, oh, you got a problem solved on the spot. How do you do it? How do I get there? Just try it. Don’t speak the language. It’s okay. Communicate with your hand. And, you know, me learning, I speak a few languages, so I’m able to communicate to people with very little language.

45:23You could tell facial expressions of people very much so in eye contact. But now it’s easy with a bit of AI and translating and stuff like that. But at those times, it was none of that. That’s amazing, Rafa. Rafa, thank you very much for accepting the invitation. You have awesome stories. And thank you for sharing all those experiences or open up with us. Thank you. Thank you so much, the both of you. It’s been an amazing pleasure.

46:00It’s been an amazing pleasure to have you here and thank you for helping us also with the podcast. No worries, the both of you. It’s a good job what you guys are doing. I’m happy. Interesting interview. Usually documentaries are a powerful way to bridge the gap between science and public.

46:32Visual storytelling is the best way to convey abstract or technical information to make it understandable and more relatable. For example, when documenting climate change, one talks about rising temperatures and the other shows the real -world effects on communities and ecosystems. The visual evidence can be more persuasive and engaging, helping to raise awareness and inspire action than scientists yelling at the government.

47:02That is right. Nevertheless, engaging the general public has its limits, and governments and institutions must go further and take the next step to accomplish goals and respond to international treaties and commitments. That’s right. And now, accuracy and unbiased perspectives are difficult to manage while making documentaries. However, collaborating with scientists and experts in the field can help them to give them up or provide up based on the evidence that is shown. These are crucial insights and guidance for representing information correctly and avoiding misinterpretation. This collaboration also adds credibility to the documentary, ensuring the viewers receive reliable and factual content. Yes. And that’s right. And as a personal remark, I’m a big fan of documentaries and movies.

47:54So it was very exciting to understand and learn about photography and the editing process and how it all responds to the aesthetic view. That in the end is what appeals to people’s emotions. Yes, I completely agree. I love documentaries too. Thank you for joining us in this episode. Movies and documentaries inspire this episode. We have included reference to our web… guest webpage in the episode description. Remember, Rafa is also part of our crew. Remember, this podcast is self -funded and edited by its host.

48:28You can support us by listening to our podcast on our YouTube channel. Don’t forget to give like into the episode and subscribe. You can also listen to our podcast on Spotify and our official website. By the way, we are launching a new website. Follow us on social media. like Facebook and Instagram. Original music by our colleague and friend, Bernardo Aguila, and technical support from our promotions manager and friend, Rafael Jordani. The translation was sponsored by 11Labs AI platform, which allows us to translate text to speech accurately.